Girls in bands: two 90s rock icons on romance, ruthlessness and boring men

乐队女孩:两位90年代摇滚偶像谈论浪漫、狠辣与无聊的男人

Girls in bands: two 90s rock icons on romance, ruthless…

Liz Evans, Adjunct Researcher, English and Writing, University of Tasmania

Iconic 90s bass players Melissa Auf Der Maur (Hole) and Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth) chronicle a time characterised by messy humanity, low-level trust and delicate egos.

标志性的90年代贝斯手梅丽莎·奥夫·德尔·毛尔(Hole)和金·戈登(Sonic Youth)记录了一个以复杂人性、低级信任和脆弱自我为特征的时代。

In the 1990s, Melissa Auf der Maur played bass in two of the decade’s most notable rock bands: Hole and Smashing Pumpkins.

在20世纪90年代,梅丽莎·奥夫·德尔·毛(Melissa Auf der Maur)曾在该十年最著名的两支摇滚乐队中担任贝斯手:Hole和Smashing Pumpkins。

Her new book, Even the Good Girls Will Cry: My 90s Rock Memoir, documents this wild chapter in her life, as she navigates the heightened emotions and destructive excesses of Courtney Love and learns to wrangle the controlling influence of Billy Corgan (of Smashing Pumpkins).

她的新书《即便是好女孩也会哭泣:我的90年代摇滚回忆录》(Even the Good Girls Will Cry: My 90s Rock Memoir)记录了她生命中这段狂野的篇章,讲述了她如何应对科特尼·洛夫(Courtney Love)情绪的激动和破坏性的过度,并学会驾驭比利·科根(Billy Corgan,来自Smashing Pumpkins)的控制欲。

Ten years earlier, Kim Gordon’s career began during New York’s post-punk era. Her book, Girl In A Band (2015), recently re-released as a tenth anniversary edition, chronicles her time with Sonic Youth, and charts her role within an alternative scene that shaped and influenced independent music culture across the United States.

十年前,金·戈登(Kim Gordon)的职业生涯始于纽约的后朋克时代。她的著作《乐队中的女孩》(Girl In A Band,2015年)最近以十周年纪念版重新发行,记录了她与Sonic Youth的时光,并描绘了她在另类场景中的角色,该场景塑造并影响了美国各地的独立音乐文化。

By the early 1990s, she was something of a godmother figure for Auf der Maur’s generation of women.

到20世纪90年代初,她成为了奥夫·德尔·毛一代女性的某种“守护神”般的存在。

Review: Even the Good Girls Will Cry: My 90s Rock Memoir – Melissa Auf Der Maur (Atlantic); Girl in a Band – Kim Gordon (Faber)

书评:《即便是好女孩也会哭泣:我的90年代摇滚回忆录》——梅丽莎·奥夫·德尔·毛(Atlantic);《乐队中的女孩》——金·戈登(Faber)

Introverted individuals with distinct perspectives on the peculiar challenges of the rock industry, Gordon and Auf der Maur appear to have benefited from a stability missing in many of their peers.

戈登和奥夫·德尔·毛都是性格内向,对摇滚乐产业的独特挑战有着不同的看法,她们似乎受益于一种许多同龄人所缺乏的稳定性。

As bass players, they avoided the spotlight until embarking on their solo projects. And with backgrounds in the visual arts, they each had access to independent creative identities away from the stage, which no doubt minimised the pitfalls of rock stardom.

作为贝斯手,她们一直避免聚光灯,直到开始个人项目。而且,由于她们拥有视觉艺术背景,每人都能在舞台之外获得独立的创作身份,这无疑最大限度地减少了摇滚明星的陷阱。

As a music journalist throughout the 1990s, I interviewed many of the people in their stories, including Courtney Love, Billy Corgan, Dave Grohl, Thurston Moore and Kurt Cobain. I witnessed their complex politics and fierce power plays, some still ongoing.

作为一位90年代的音乐记者,我采访了他们故事中的许多人,包括科特尼·洛夫、比利·科根、戴夫·格罗尔、瑟斯顿·摩尔和柯纳德·库伯恩。我目睹了他们复杂的政治斗争和激烈的权力博弈,其中一些至今仍在持续。

Once or twice, I was personally impacted.

有一次或两次,我个人受到了影响。

For example, a very high profile singer tried to persuade other women not to speak to me for my first book because my magazine profile of her was badly altered by a male editor. Another musician blamed me for publishing personal details in an interview after I’d given her full copy approval.

例如,一位非常知名的歌手曾试图说服其他女性不要与我说话,因为我为她撰写的杂志报道被一位男性编辑严重修改了。另一位音乐家则指责我,在我给了她完整的文稿批准后,仍然在采访中发表了她的个人细节。

It was, as Auf der Maur says, a time of “messy humanity”, low-level trust, and delicate egos.

正如奥夫·德尔·毛所说,那是一个“混乱的人性”、“低水平的信任”和“脆弱的自我”并存的时代。

It was also, as she points out, the last analogue decade: a time before the music scene was transformed by the internet, when rock culture appeared to be finally embracing powerful women and female agency. But in my experience, and as each of these books reveals, it was never that straightforward.

她还指出,这也是最后一个模拟时代:在音乐场景被互联网改变之前,摇滚文化似乎终于开始拥抱强大的女性和女性能动性。但在我的经验中,正如这些书所揭示的,事情从未如此简单。

Musical callings and romantic dreams

音乐的召唤与浪漫的梦想

An artistic free spirit raised in Montreal by unorthodox, creative parents, Melissa Auf der Maur first saw Hole and Smashing Pumpkins within a fortnight of each other in July 1991. Both bands played at the legendary punk club, Les Foufounes Électriques, where she worked part-time while studying photography.

梅丽莎·奥夫·德尔·毛尔(Melissa Auf der Maur)是一位在蒙特利尔由非传统、富有创造力的父母养大的艺术自由灵魂。1991年7月,她在两周内先后看到了Hole和Smashing Pumpkins。这两支乐队都在传奇的朋克俱乐部“Les Foufounes Électriques”演出,她当时在那里兼职工作,同时学习摄影。

Figure

More impressed by Hole’s calm, centred bassist, Jill Emery, than the band’s infamous, volatile frontwoman, Auf der Maur was truly starstruck by Corgan. She introduced herself to him after he was bottled on stage by her roommate. Watching him play, she experienced a “new musical calling”. Four months later, she travelled to a Pumpkins show in Vermont and spent the night “soul fucking” him in his motel room.

奥夫·德尔·毛尔对Hole沉稳、沉着的大提琴手吉尔·埃梅里(Jill Emery)的印象,远胜于对乐队臭名昭著、情绪不稳定的主唱。她对科根(Corgan)产生了真正的迷恋。在她的室友在舞台上“制服”他之后,她向他介绍了自己。看着他演奏,她体验到了一种“新的音乐召唤”。四个月后,她前往佛蒙特州看了一场Pumpkins的演出,并在他的汽车旅馆房间里度过了一个“灵魂交缠”的夜晚。

“I am you and you are me,” she remembers Corgan saying to her, in what sounds like a rock-starry show of narcissism towards an impressionable fan. But for Auf der Maur, who occasionally veers into grandiose claims, the encounter was a “romantic dream come true” and “a turning point […] musically, personally and cosmically”.

“我是你,你也是我,”她回忆起科根对她说的话,这听起来像是一个摇滚明星对一个容易受影响的粉丝展示的自恋表演。但对于奥夫·德尔·毛尔来说,她偶尔会做出夸张的宣称,这次相遇却是一个“如梦似幻的浪漫实现”,也是一个“在音乐上、个人上和宇宙层面上都的转折点”。

More tellingly perhaps, though she describes Corgan as eventually exerting “more influence on my life than anyone other than my parents”, Auf der Maur didn’t question his patriarchal power dynamic for many years – despite being in one of rock’s most notorious female-fronted bands.

更具说明性的是,尽管她描述科根最终对她的影响“超过了除了父母之外的任何人”,但奥夫·德尔·毛尔多年来都没有质疑过他这种父权式的权力动态——尽管她身处的是摇滚史上最臭名昭著的女性主唱乐队之一。

But Corgan’s hold extended to his former girlfriend, Courtney Love, long after she left him for Kurt Cobain. When Hole’s second bassist, Kristen Pfaff, died from an overdose, it was Corgan who decided Auf der Maur should be the replacement.

但科根的影响力延伸到了他的前女友科特尼·洛夫(Courtney Love),即使她在离开他选择科特·科本(Kurt Cobain)之后很久了。当Hole的第二位大提琴手克里斯滕·普法夫(Kristen Pfaff)因药物过量去世时,正是科根决定让奥夫·德尔·毛尔成为她的替代者。

The Hole drama

《Hole》的戏剧性

Life in Hole was nothing if not dramatic – and Auf der Maur’s account harbours no illusions about the difficulty of working with a grieving, traumatised widow.

生活在《Hole》简直就是一场戏剧——而Auf der Maur的记述,没有丝毫幻想,关于与一位哀伤、受创的寡妇共事是多么困难。

But her empathy and compassion keep her story from collapsing into the critical terrain so often provoked by the outspoken, uncontained Love who attracted considerable vitriol, particularly after becoming involved with Kurt Cobain.

但她的同理心和同情心,让她讲述的故事没有崩塌到批判的泥潭里,而这个泥潭往往是被那些直言不讳、无法约束的Love乐队激起的,尤其是在她与科特·科本(Kurt Cobain)扯上关系之后。

Auf der Maur is also more forgiving than drummer Patty Schemel, who paints a harsher picture of the ambitious, tempestuous singer in her brilliant memoir, Hit So Hard. But she was very aware of her marginalised position as Love’s “good girl” in the autocratic Hole. She had no artistic freedom in the band and eventually grew frustrated with her unfulfilling situation.

Auf der Maur比鼓手帕蒂·谢梅尔(Patty Schemel)更宽容,谢梅尔在她的精彩回忆录《Hit So Hard》中,描绘了这位雄心勃勃、情绪激动的歌手的更严酷的形象。但她非常清楚自己作为Love乐队“好女孩”的边缘化地位,在专制的《Hole》乐队里。她在乐队里没有任何艺术自由,最终对自己无法充实的处境感到沮丧。

After five years in Love’s orbit, Auf der Maur wanted out. By 1998, the singer’s Hollywood film career had catapulted her into a different stratosphere of celebrity culture, further widening the existing chasm between her and her band members.

在Love乐队的轨道上度过了五年后,Auf der Maur想要离开。到了1998年,这位歌手的好莱坞电影生涯已将她推向了名人文化的不同高度,进一步加深了她与乐队成员之间已有的鸿沟。

And the glamour and excitement of big festival billings and hit records were not enough to prevent the bass player from feeling ultimately “disillusioned and disconnected”.

而大型音乐节演出和热门唱片带来的光环和兴奋感,也无法阻止这位贝斯手感到最终的“幻灭和脱节”。

Her decision to quit was compounded when she fell in love with ex-Nirvana drummer Dave Grohl, now with the Foo Fighters. His long-running rift with Love had previously made him “off-limits”.

她决定退出的原因,是她爱上了前Nirvana鼓手戴夫·格罗尔(Dave Grohl),他现在在Foo Fighters乐队。他与Love乐队长期以来的决裂,此前曾使他“遥不可及”。

But before she was released from her restrictive contract with Hole, Corgan was back in touch, asking her to replace D’arcy Wretzky in Smashing Pumpkins for a year of intensive touring. Wretzky’s sudden departure is glossed over in the book as a “touchy subject”, though she played with the Pumpkins for 11 years, and was reputedly a friend of Auf der Maur.

但在她从《Hole》的限制性合同中解脱之前,科根(Corgan)重新与她联系,邀请她接替Smashing Pumpkins乐队的D’arcy Wretzky,进行一年的密集巡演。Wretzky的突然离开在书中被轻描淡写地描述为“敏感话题”,尽管她曾与Pumpkins乐队合作了11年,并且据传是Auf der Maur的朋友。

I remember Wretzky as a quietly intelligent individual with a striking stage presence, but Corgan’s domineering personality and punishing work ethic apparently proved too much for her.

我记得Wretzky是一位安静而聪慧,舞台表现力出众的个体,但科根那种专横的个性和严苛的工作伦理,显然对她来说太多了。

And Auf der Maur makes no secret of Corgan’s ruthlessness. At her first rehearsal, he issued her with three rules: “One, you can’t make a mistake. Two, you can’t get sick. And three, there are no days off.”

Auf der Maur也毫不掩饰科根的无情。在她的第一次排练时,他给她制定了三条规则:“第一,你不能犯错。第二,你不能生病。第三,没有休息日。”

Away from Grohl, who was also on the road with his band, she was bound to a gruelling schedule at the hands of a man she now saw as a moody overachiever. In response, she began to change her perspective.

远离了与乐队一同巡演的格罗尔,她被一个她现在视为情绪化、过度努力的男人,安排了艰苦的日程表。作为回应,她开始改变自己的视角。

Corgan’s partner at the time was the gifted photographer Yelena Yemchuk, who, Auf der Maur notes, had become “a bit of a kept woman”. Knowing Grohl wanted marriage and children, she witnessed Yemchuk with “her beautiful talent trapped in the bell jar of Billy’s world” with growing alarm.

当时科根的伴侣是才华横溢的摄影师叶莲娜·叶姆丘克(Yelena Yemchuk),Auf der Maur指出,她已经变成了一个“有点被供养的女人”。知道格罗尔想要婚姻和孩子,她眼睁睁地看着叶姆丘克“她美丽的才华被困在比利的世界的玻璃罩里”,并日益感到担忧。

As the two women became close, together they realised they needed to “step out of the shadows of these bigger, more successful men” and forge their own paths.

随着两位女性的亲近,她们一起意识到,需要“走出这些更大、更成功的男人的阴影”,开创属于自己的道路。

With the culmination of the Pumpkins world tour in 2001, Auf der Maur was 29 and finally ready for a new direction. She left her relationship with Grohl and turned down Corgan’s invitation to collaborate on a new project. She finishes her book with a glimpse into her next chapter: motherhood, and a grounded life of artistic ventures in upstate New York.

随着2001年Pumpkins世界巡演的结束,Auf der Maur已经29岁,终于准备迎接新的方向。她结束了与格罗尔的关系,并拒绝了科根邀请她参与新项目的提议。她以对未来章节的展望结束了她的书:为人母,以及在纽约州北部过上充满艺术探索的安定生活。

It’s more of a beginning than an end.

这与其说是一个结束,不如说是一个开始。

Feminism and challenges with men

女权主义与男性挑战

The first time I interviewed Kim Gordon was over the phone in 1990. At the time, she was the bass player with Sonic Youth, the seminal no wave band she co-founded with her husband, singer/guitarist Thurston Moore, in 1981. Hinting at what I suspected was sometimes a lonely situation, she told me that while the band’s relationship was essentially a beautiful one, her male colleagues could be “so non-communicative”.

我第一次采访金·戈登是在1990年通过电话进行的。当时,她是Sonic Youth乐队的贝斯手,该乐队是她与丈夫、歌手/吉他手斯瑟斯顿·摩尔于1981年共同创立的开创性新浪潮乐队。她提到,这暗示着一种有时令人感到孤独的处境,她告诉我,虽然乐队的关系本质上是美好的,但她的男性同事们却“非常不善于沟通”。

Figure

Three years later, I had a second, longer conversation with Gordon in her New York apartment for my aforementioned book, during which she elaborated on her original theme. Being in a band with men could be challenging, she said, because “there are some really boring aspects to it” and “no matter how much of a new man someone thinks they are, they’re just not!”

三年后,我为我之前提到的书籍,在她的纽约公寓里与戈登进行了第二次、更长时间的交谈,期间她详细阐述了她最初的主题。她说,和男性一起组乐队可能会充满挑战,因为“其中有些方面真的非常无聊”,而且“无论一个人觉得自己是多么新潮的男人,他们都不是!”

Gordon’s experience is summed up by both the content and title of her acclaimed memoir. With a new foreword by her friend, celebrated American writer, Rachel Kushner, and an additional closing chapter where Gordon reflects on the intervening decade, the latest version of the book is testament to its ongoing relevance for feminism, popular culture and music history.

戈登的经历体现在她备受赞誉的回忆录的内容和标题中。新版书由她的朋友、著名美国作家瑞秋·库什纳撰写了新的前言,并增加了一个让戈登反思中间十年时光的结语章节,这本最新的书证明了其对于女权主义、流行文化和音乐历史持续的意义。

Infused with the visceral, embodied sensuality of her artistic perspective, Gordon’s memoir details her upbringing in Los Angeles with her schizophrenic brother, Keller, whose moods clouded her early life, and whose death in 2023, aged 74, she recounts in the new edition.

戈登的回忆录充满了她艺术视角中发自内心的、具身的感性,详细讲述了她在洛杉矶与患有精神分裂症的哥哥凯勒的成长经历。凯勒的情绪曾笼罩着她早年生活,新版书中,她回顾了他在2023年因年迈(74岁)去世的经历。

It charts her pivotal move to New York as a 27-year-old in 1980, her involvement with the city’s post punk arts and music scene, her relationship with Moore and their resulting career with Sonic Youth.

书中描绘了她于1980年作为一名27岁女性搬到纽约的关键转折点,她参与了这座城市后朋克艺术和音乐场景的经历,她与摩尔的关系,以及他们由此在Sonic Youth乐队建立的职业生涯。

Crucially, it details her influence in the Riot Grrrl movement, and her side projects, Free Kitten, with best friend Julie Cafritz, and fashion label, X-Girl, with Daisy von Furth, all of which afforded her the female companionship she lacked in Sonic Youth.

至关重要的是,书中详细介绍了她在Riot Grrrl运动中的影响力,以及她与挚友朱莉·卡夫里茨的个人项目Free Kitten,和与黛西·冯·福特合作的时尚品牌X-Girl,所有这些项目都为她提供了她在Sonic Youth所缺乏的女性陪伴。

‘Painfully protracted’ marriage breakdown

“痛苦拖延的”婚姻破裂

It also tells the more universal story of a painfully protracted marriage breakdown and a couple’s failed attempts to save their relationship, following Gordon’s discovery of Moore’s affair. The book refrains from specifying dates, but by the time she found out through texts and emails, her husband had been unfaithful for several years.

它也讲述了一个更普遍的故事,讲述了一场痛苦拖延的婚姻破裂,以及一对夫妇在戈登发现摩尔出轨后,为挽救这段关系所做的徒劳尝试。书中没有指定日期,但等到她通过短信和电子邮件得知真相时,她的丈夫已经不忠了好几年。

The woman in question, who is not named in the book, was Eva Prinz, who became Moore’s second wife in 2020. At the time of the affair, Prinz was married to her second husband. She had previously been involved with one of Sonic Youth’s collaborators.

这位女士本人,书中没有提及她的名字,她是伊娃·普林茨(Eva Prinz),于2020年成为摩尔的第二任妻子。在出轨发生时,普林茨已经嫁给了她的第二任丈夫。她此前曾与索尼克青年团(Sonic Youth)的一位合作者有过关系。

An editor for an independent publisher, she had initially approached Gordon about a potential book project in the early 2000s, but Gordon had passed it onto Moore, with fateful consequences.

作为一家独立出版社的编辑,她最初在21世纪初曾联系戈登,讨论一个潜在的书籍项目,但戈登将此事转交给了摩尔,并带来了命运的后果。

Sickened by Moore’s long-concealed infidelity with someone well known to their inner circle, Gordon was left to navigate the devastating impact on her family, her career and her sense of self. Given the pivotal nature of this episode, it seems fitting that she starts her story here, at the end of a significant personal and professional era, with Sonic Youth’s final performance in 2011.

戈登对摩尔与圈内人熟知之人的长期隐瞒的出轨感到厌恶,她不得不应对这对她的家庭、她的事业和她自我认知带来的毁灭性影响。鉴于这一事件的关键性,她选择从这里开始讲述她的故事——在索尼克青年团2011年的最后一场演出结束之际,一个重要的个人和职业时代的终点。

According to Gordon, this last appearance in Sao Paulo, Brazil “was all about the boys”. Struggling to hide her misery, anxiety and anger on stage, while her ex regressed into an adolescent display of “rock star showboating”, she was tempted to verbalise her fury on stage. But she didn’t want to follow the unboundaried example of Courtney Love, who was then ranting and raving her way around South America on tour with Hole.

根据戈登的说法,在巴西圣保罗的最后一场演出“完全是关于男孩们的”。她努力在舞台上隐藏自己的悲伤、焦虑和愤怒,而她的前伴侣则退化成了一种青少年的“摇滚明星炫耀行为”,这让她产生了在舞台上宣泄怒火的冲动。但她不想效仿科特尼·洛夫(Courtney Love)这种没有界限的行为,当时她正带着Hole乐队在南美巡演,歇斯底里地谩骂着。

“I would never want to be seen as the car crash she is,” writes Gordon. “I didn’t want our last concert to be distasteful when Sonic Youth meant so much to so many people; I didn’t want to use the stage for any kind of personal statement, and what good would it have done anyway?”

戈登写道:“我绝不想被看作像她那样精神崩溃的人。我不想让我们的最后一场演唱会变得难看,因为索尼克青年团对太多人来说意义太重大了;我不想利用舞台发表任何个人宣言,反正那有什么用呢?”

Distance as power

距离即力量

Gordon is highly adept at balancing between strong emotion and careful restraint. Throughout her book, she considers herself honestly, but thoughtfully. She conveys a quiet self-possession and enigmatic presence, writing as she speaks: with intelligence and a guarded openness. It’s how I remember her: warm enough to gift me a pair of John Fluevog sandals straight from her own closet, yet somehow always slightly removed. As Kushner says in her introduction to the memoir, “distance is the power of her performance”.

Gordon非常擅长在强烈情感和谨慎克制之间找到平衡。在她的书中,她以一种诚实而深思熟虑的方式审视自己。她散发出一种安静的自我掌控感和神秘的气场,她的文字如同她的言谈:智慧而又带着一种审慎的开放。这就是我记得她的方式:她足够热情,能直接从自己的衣橱里送给我一双John Fluevog凉鞋,但同时又总有一种若即若离的感觉。正如库什纳在回忆录的引言中所说:“距离是她表演的力量。”

Now 72, Kim Gordon has been a touring musician for almost 40 years. Having made multiple forays into the worlds of fashion, art and film, since Sonic Youth she has launched two experimental bands with male collaborators, Body/Head and Glitterbust, been nominated for two Grammy awards, and released three highly acclaimed solo albums as a formidable frontwoman with an all-girl band.

如今72岁的金·戈登(Kim Gordon)已经是一位巡演近40年的音乐家。自“Sonic Youth”以来,她涉足了时尚、艺术和电影等多个领域,组建了两个与男性合作的实验乐队——Body/Head和Glitterbust,曾获得两次格莱美奖提名,并作为一支全女乐队的强大主唱,发行了三张备受赞誉的个人专辑。

These days, Gordon performs as if her life depends on it. With her second chapter well underway, she’s on fire – and cooler than ever. Let’s hope a second memoir is in the works.

近年来,戈登的表演仿佛生命攸关。随着她的第二部作品正在进行,她的状态极佳——比以往任何时候都更酷。希望她的第二部回忆录也能问世。

Liz Evans does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.

Liz Evans不为任何可能从本文中受益的公司或组织工作、提供咨询、持有股份或获得资金支持,并且除了其学术职位外,未披露任何相关隶属关系。